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	<title>Comments on: Coming out – Part II</title>
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	<link>http://www.conversiondiary.com/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html</link>
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		<title>By: Coming out – Part I &#124; Conversion Diary</title>
		<link>http://www.conversiondiary.com/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-22715</link>
		<dc:creator>Coming out – Part I &#124; Conversion Diary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 03:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gator1217.hostgator.com/~fulwiler/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html#comment-22715</guid>
		<description>[...] After all the spiritual flailing I&#8217;ve done these past few months it looks like I&#8217;ve reached a fork in the road. A decision is required. If I don&#8217;t have faith in the Church, if I&#8217;m not Catholic, then I need to just do NFP + backup contraception and stay on Coumadin since that&#8217;s by far the easiest option*. And, if I do have faith in the Church, which I think I do, then it&#8217;s time to start talking about it, and living it.  Continued here in Part II [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] After all the spiritual flailing I&#8217;ve done these past few months it looks like I&#8217;ve reached a fork in the road. A decision is required. If I don&#8217;t have faith in the Church, if I&#8217;m not Catholic, then I need to just do NFP + backup contraception and stay on Coumadin since that&#8217;s by far the easiest option*. And, if I do have faith in the Church, which I think I do, then it&#8217;s time to start talking about it, and living it.  Continued here in Part II [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.conversiondiary.com/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-604</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gator1217.hostgator.com/~fulwiler/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html#comment-604</guid>
		<description>Jennifer,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;d like to send you something.  Do you have a post office box or something I could send it to (no, don&#039;t give your address to strange guys in the internet).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Go to the blog link in my name and click the e-mail button if you&#039;d like to do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jennifer,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to send you something.  Do you have a post office box or something I could send it to (no, don&#8217;t give your address to strange guys in the internet).</p>
<p>Go to the blog link in my name and click the e-mail button if you&#8217;d like to do that.</p>
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		<title>By: ELC</title>
		<link>http://www.conversiondiary.com/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-589</link>
		<dc:creator>ELC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 02:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gator1217.hostgator.com/~fulwiler/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html#comment-589</guid>
		<description>You are a gem. And you are already a Catholic, know it or not, formally or not. Welcome home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are a gem. And you are already a Catholic, know it or not, formally or not. Welcome home.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.conversiondiary.com/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-587</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 10:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gator1217.hostgator.com/~fulwiler/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html#comment-587</guid>
		<description>Jennifer, &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Don&#039;t be so hard on yourself......maybe you weren&#039;t an atheist because you were a prideful, stubborn human being.  I&#039;ve known plenty of Atheists who were every bit as humble as many Catholics I know, but simply hadn&#039;t been given the gift of Faith.  Remember, Faith is a GIFT.  I don&#039;t mean to sound harsh to you, but it seems to me that it&#039;s pretty dangerous to begin to look down on your former atheist friends (and self!) as you become more Catholic.  Pride is just as much a problem for Catholics as it is for Atheists.  Just look at all the schisms, etc, these days, and read some of the websites by &quot;conservative&quot; &quot;traditional&quot; Catholics, and you&#039;ll see what I mean.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;God gives us ALL that we are.  None if it comes from ourselves.  If you have been given the gift of Faith, be humbly grateful for it, but don&#039;t let the temptation to revile your former self overcome you.  That&#039;s just going to lead to more problems.  Be thankful for your new faith, pray for those who have not been given it, and realize we ALL have a long way to go in this faith journey---whether we have been cradle-Catholics, or hard-core Atheists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jennifer, </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be so hard on yourself&#8230;&#8230;maybe you weren&#8217;t an atheist because you were a prideful, stubborn human being.  I&#8217;ve known plenty of Atheists who were every bit as humble as many Catholics I know, but simply hadn&#8217;t been given the gift of Faith.  Remember, Faith is a GIFT.  I don&#8217;t mean to sound harsh to you, but it seems to me that it&#8217;s pretty dangerous to begin to look down on your former atheist friends (and self!) as you become more Catholic.  Pride is just as much a problem for Catholics as it is for Atheists.  Just look at all the schisms, etc, these days, and read some of the websites by &#8220;conservative&#8221; &#8220;traditional&#8221; Catholics, and you&#8217;ll see what I mean.</p>
<p>God gives us ALL that we are.  None if it comes from ourselves.  If you have been given the gift of Faith, be humbly grateful for it, but don&#8217;t let the temptation to revile your former self overcome you.  That&#8217;s just going to lead to more problems.  Be thankful for your new faith, pray for those who have not been given it, and realize we ALL have a long way to go in this faith journey&#8212;whether we have been cradle-Catholics, or hard-core Atheists.</p>
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		<title>By: Russ</title>
		<link>http://www.conversiondiary.com/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-586</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 03:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gator1217.hostgator.com/~fulwiler/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html#comment-586</guid>
		<description>Hi Jennifer,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I too am an ex-Atheist who &quot;graduated&quot; from RCIA eleven years ago.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I very well remember going through what you describe - after years of militant atheism, to &quot;come out&quot; to co-workers and family was very difficult.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I remember the burning in my cheeks as I meekly began to slowly &quot;fess up&quot; to becoming a Catholic publicly.  I can&#039;t quite put my finger on the emotion I felt, but it was something like embarrassment, though I wasn&#039;t really embarrassed; it felt shameful though I didn&#039;t feel shame.  It&#039;s very hard to describe.  Perhaps it was the &quot;purgatory&quot; one experiences when his pride is demolished.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Pride is truly a &quot;deadly&quot; sin, though it doesn&#039;t seem to be discussed much any more.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I once heard a homily on the prodigal son, which I will no doubt do a poor job of retelling here, but I&#039;ll try.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We were asked to put ourselves in the place of the returning son, AFTER he had come back.  You&#039;ve been dressed in the finest robes, a ring on your finger, and the party preparations are under way.  Your brother has just returned from the fields and is in his room, refusing to come out to the party.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Your father is banging on your brother&#039;s door, begging him to come out and celebrate with the family your return.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;How would the returning son feel under these circumstances?  I think a mix of embarrassment and shame would be pretty close.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And maybe that&#039;s the key: we do feel embarrassment and shame upon returning home, but not about returning home.  We feel it about having left in the first place, and what we did while we were gone.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;God bless you, Jennifer, and good luck with your journey home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jennifer,</p>
<p>I too am an ex-Atheist who &#8220;graduated&#8221; from RCIA eleven years ago.</p>
<p>I very well remember going through what you describe &#8211; after years of militant atheism, to &#8220;come out&#8221; to co-workers and family was very difficult.</p>
<p>I remember the burning in my cheeks as I meekly began to slowly &#8220;fess up&#8221; to becoming a Catholic publicly.  I can&#8217;t quite put my finger on the emotion I felt, but it was something like embarrassment, though I wasn&#8217;t really embarrassed; it felt shameful though I didn&#8217;t feel shame.  It&#8217;s very hard to describe.  Perhaps it was the &#8220;purgatory&#8221; one experiences when his pride is demolished.</p>
<p>Pride is truly a &#8220;deadly&#8221; sin, though it doesn&#8217;t seem to be discussed much any more.</p>
<p>I once heard a homily on the prodigal son, which I will no doubt do a poor job of retelling here, but I&#8217;ll try.</p>
<p>We were asked to put ourselves in the place of the returning son, AFTER he had come back.  You&#8217;ve been dressed in the finest robes, a ring on your finger, and the party preparations are under way.  Your brother has just returned from the fields and is in his room, refusing to come out to the party.</p>
<p>Your father is banging on your brother&#8217;s door, begging him to come out and celebrate with the family your return.</p>
<p>How would the returning son feel under these circumstances?  I think a mix of embarrassment and shame would be pretty close.</p>
<p>And maybe that&#8217;s the key: we do feel embarrassment and shame upon returning home, but not about returning home.  We feel it about having left in the first place, and what we did while we were gone.</p>
<p>God bless you, Jennifer, and good luck with your journey home.</p>
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		<title>By: Bekah</title>
		<link>http://www.conversiondiary.com/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-585</link>
		<dc:creator>Bekah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 02:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gator1217.hostgator.com/~fulwiler/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html#comment-585</guid>
		<description>Welcome to the church, Jennifer!!  I was received 2 years ago, though I never was in the atheist camp. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I have been in the situation you describe, however.  I have been struggling with some sort of hormonal issue for awhile.  Apparently it isn&#039;t bad enough to keep me from conceiving, yet, though.  However, before I conceived my last (who is now 6mo), I began seeking medical attention more seriously.  It was difficult to explain why I was making initial contact with a family practice, not a Gyn.  It was difficult to explain why I wouldn&#039;t accept birth control, even though my intentions were not to be pregnant.  It was difficult to explain NFP and how it was supposed to work.  I felt like a freak.  But I did it anyway.  I figured, in the end, it doesn&#039;t matter what they think of me, just that I figure it out.  Of course, by the time I got my endo referral, I was pregnant (I was hoping to get the hormonal thing straightened out so that NFP would become more usable for me).  And the tests they were able to run were no help, and I can&#039;t have any more done until I have weaned (like when baby is 6 mo, the endo says.  More like 2 y, I think to myself).  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So, I&#039;ve sought other solutions.  Part of what is going on is influencing temps.  So I switched methods.  I discovered Creighton through Alicia of Fructus Ventris, who I met on a Christian midwife list we both sub to.  It is a mucus only method, and to me it seems so much easier to use, interpret, and so much less guess work.  Less guess work means greater accuracy.  Plus it is affiliated with Pope Paul VI Institute.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Which leads me to my next suggestion.  Pope Paul VI Institute is primarily focused on infertility, I believe, but they may have contacts with doctors of other disciplines.  I highly encourage you to check it out.  http://www.popepaulvi.com/&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Lastly, how long are you required to be on this treatment?  Though difficult, would you and your husband consider just being continent?  It is not easy, but sometimes sacrifice becomes necessary to properly show love to our spouses, ourselves, and our children.  I can say that it is possible to exponentially increase your appreciation and love for your spouse even while being continent.  We have had longish periods of abstinence since the birth of our last, due to our absolute inability to afford another child right now.  I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve ever loved my dh more (we&#039;ll be married 10 years tomorrow).  We each strive to show our love in other ways when we cannot be together, but he is so much better at it than I.  It&#039;s not the end of the world, and if this treatment is temporary, it may just be worth easing the worry by forgoing relations for a time.  Just another option. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I will pray.  For all your concerns.&lt;br/&gt;Bekah of http://roadwelltraveled.wordpress.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome to the church, Jennifer!!  I was received 2 years ago, though I never was in the atheist camp. </p>
<p>I have been in the situation you describe, however.  I have been struggling with some sort of hormonal issue for awhile.  Apparently it isn&#8217;t bad enough to keep me from conceiving, yet, though.  However, before I conceived my last (who is now 6mo), I began seeking medical attention more seriously.  It was difficult to explain why I was making initial contact with a family practice, not a Gyn.  It was difficult to explain why I wouldn&#8217;t accept birth control, even though my intentions were not to be pregnant.  It was difficult to explain NFP and how it was supposed to work.  I felt like a freak.  But I did it anyway.  I figured, in the end, it doesn&#8217;t matter what they think of me, just that I figure it out.  Of course, by the time I got my endo referral, I was pregnant (I was hoping to get the hormonal thing straightened out so that NFP would become more usable for me).  And the tests they were able to run were no help, and I can&#8217;t have any more done until I have weaned (like when baby is 6 mo, the endo says.  More like 2 y, I think to myself).  </p>
<p>So, I&#8217;ve sought other solutions.  Part of what is going on is influencing temps.  So I switched methods.  I discovered Creighton through Alicia of Fructus Ventris, who I met on a Christian midwife list we both sub to.  It is a mucus only method, and to me it seems so much easier to use, interpret, and so much less guess work.  Less guess work means greater accuracy.  Plus it is affiliated with Pope Paul VI Institute.</p>
<p>Which leads me to my next suggestion.  Pope Paul VI Institute is primarily focused on infertility, I believe, but they may have contacts with doctors of other disciplines.  I highly encourage you to check it out.  <a href="http://www.popepaulvi.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.popepaulvi.com/</a></p>
<p>Lastly, how long are you required to be on this treatment?  Though difficult, would you and your husband consider just being continent?  It is not easy, but sometimes sacrifice becomes necessary to properly show love to our spouses, ourselves, and our children.  I can say that it is possible to exponentially increase your appreciation and love for your spouse even while being continent.  We have had longish periods of abstinence since the birth of our last, due to our absolute inability to afford another child right now.  I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve ever loved my dh more (we&#8217;ll be married 10 years tomorrow).  We each strive to show our love in other ways when we cannot be together, but he is so much better at it than I.  It&#8217;s not the end of the world, and if this treatment is temporary, it may just be worth easing the worry by forgoing relations for a time.  Just another option. </p>
<p>I will pray.  For all your concerns.<br />Bekah of <a href="http://roadwelltraveled.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">http://roadwelltraveled.wordpress.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.conversiondiary.com/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-584</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gator1217.hostgator.com/~fulwiler/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html#comment-584</guid>
		<description>Every best wish to you, Jennifer, as you continue your journey home.  I admire your courage, and the strength of your faith.  You no doubt know that the start date your RCIA program is the feast of St. Augustine -- a good patron to adopt, if you haven&#039;t done that already!  I&#039;ll keep you in prayer as you travel &quot;home to Rome&quot;.  God bless you!  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Warmest regards from Canada,&lt;br/&gt;Patricia Gonzalez</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every best wish to you, Jennifer, as you continue your journey home.  I admire your courage, and the strength of your faith.  You no doubt know that the start date your RCIA program is the feast of St. Augustine &#8212; a good patron to adopt, if you haven&#8217;t done that already!  I&#8217;ll keep you in prayer as you travel &#8220;home to Rome&#8221;.  God bless you!  </p>
<p>Warmest regards from Canada,<br />Patricia Gonzalez</p>
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		<title>By: David B.</title>
		<link>http://www.conversiondiary.com/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-583</link>
		<dc:creator>David B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gator1217.hostgator.com/~fulwiler/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html#comment-583</guid>
		<description>My first line in the last post should read &quot;It &lt;b&gt;could&lt;/b&gt; be ok to use contraceptives in your case.&quot; Your case is unique and should be discussed with a priest. I am going to ask a priest and see what he has to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first line in the last post should read &#8220;It <b>could</b> be ok to use contraceptives in your case.&#8221; Your case is unique and should be discussed with a priest. I am going to ask a priest and see what he has to say.</p>
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		<title>By: David B.</title>
		<link>http://www.conversiondiary.com/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-582</link>
		<dc:creator>David B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gator1217.hostgator.com/~fulwiler/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html#comment-582</guid>
		<description>I will second what Jennifer has said (since I helped her find the reference :). &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It should be ok to use contraceptives in your case, so long as you aren&#039;t using the medicine because you don&#039;t want kids, but because of your health. Catholic moral theology allows for the use of contraceptives for &lt;em&gt;good and just medical reasons so long as you don&#039;t use them because you want to avoid pregnancy&lt;/em&gt;. Your case is definitely unique, but could fall under this category. This is something you can (and should) talk over with a priest in order to determine the rightness/wrongness of using contraception in this case. He will help you. Of course, it is ultimately up to your conscience even if you and your priest judge it is morally defensible.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Congrats on your starting RCIA. I have been reading this blog since the reluctant atheism days. I understand the issues discussing religion causes, trust me. In my household religious beliefs are held very dear, and bringing them up can create unwanted controversy. Balancing the need to stand up for yourself and the need to not create needless trouble for you or your family/friends (or appear that you are a zealous nut, lol) is tough. I rarely suceed at it. Most of the time I either come out too strong and don&#039;t say anything :).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will second what Jennifer has said (since I helped her find the reference <img src='http://www.conversiondiary.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> . </p>
<p>It should be ok to use contraceptives in your case, so long as you aren&#8217;t using the medicine because you don&#8217;t want kids, but because of your health. Catholic moral theology allows for the use of contraceptives for <em>good and just medical reasons so long as you don&#8217;t use them because you want to avoid pregnancy</em>. Your case is definitely unique, but could fall under this category. This is something you can (and should) talk over with a priest in order to determine the rightness/wrongness of using contraception in this case. He will help you. Of course, it is ultimately up to your conscience even if you and your priest judge it is morally defensible.</p>
<p>Congrats on your starting RCIA. I have been reading this blog since the reluctant atheism days. I understand the issues discussing religion causes, trust me. In my household religious beliefs are held very dear, and bringing them up can create unwanted controversy. Balancing the need to stand up for yourself and the need to not create needless trouble for you or your family/friends (or appear that you are a zealous nut, lol) is tough. I rarely suceed at it. Most of the time I either come out too strong and don&#8217;t say anything <img src='http://www.conversiondiary.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.conversiondiary.com/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-581</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 00:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gator1217.hostgator.com/~fulwiler/2006/08/coming-out-part-ii.html#comment-581</guid>
		<description>First, congrats on entering RCIA, I have enjoyed reading your story.  Watching your faith grow has helped me to grow in mine.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Second, the Catholic Church does provide for your unique circumstance with contraception. &quot;Pope Paul VI stated it this way: &#039;. . . the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from - provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever&#039; (&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Humanae Vitae&lt;/a&gt;, 15).&quot; I found this particular quote (of a quote, lol) on &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.envoymagazine.com/familyplanning.htm&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Envoy&#039;s NFP article&lt;/a&gt;. Clearly, you do not have such intent.  I am not offering this as the magic solution to your problems, but I am offering it as an option to discuss with a priest at your chosen parish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, congrats on entering RCIA, I have enjoyed reading your story.  Watching your faith grow has helped me to grow in mine.  </p>
<p>Second, the Catholic Church does provide for your unique circumstance with contraception. &#8220;Pope Paul VI stated it this way: &#8216;. . . the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from &#8211; provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever&#8217; (<a HREF="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html" REL="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Humanae Vitae</a>, 15).&#8221; I found this particular quote (of a quote, lol) on <a HREF="http://www.envoymagazine.com/familyplanning.htm" REL="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Envoy&#8217;s NFP article</a>. Clearly, you do not have such intent.  I am not offering this as the magic solution to your problems, but I am offering it as an option to discuss with a priest at your chosen parish.</p>
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