Alain

Ps: Good luck and keep up the good work with the book!

Totally understandable–I really don't know how people with toddlers and babies find any time to be on the computer at all! Actually, I'm pretty busy right now too for such an in-depth conversation, and at any rate, I feel like I've said enough to clarify my position (which was mainly what I was trying to do), so I'm totally fine with letting the ball drop here.

All the best to you as well!

I'm sorry I've dropped the ball in our conversation. I've discovered this past week that I'm about at the right capacity of "things going on," and it's been harder than I thought to find time for an interesting and thoughtful blog discussion. It's not that every moment is scheduled, but my husband and I have three boys under the age of three, so there isn't a lot of time in each day when it's possible to sit at the computer and think profound thoughts.

I wish we could all go out for coffee together and chat about this stuff! (Any of you live in Washington state?) But in the meantime, thanks for the thoughtful exchange and I do wish each of you the very best.

Warmly,
Marsha

What were your reasons for seeking faith? Why did you want to "find God"?

A few reasons. And probably none of them the "right" ones.

I felt drawn to Christ. If he were really as he is portrayed in the Bible, then that's certainly a compelling reason.

Living in a culture where the majority of people claim to believe it's true, and where one frequently hears of the "life changing," positive effects of following Christ. Wanting to fit in. Wanting to belong.

Shortly after a crisis of faith (wherein I either lost my faith or realized I never had it to begin with), I felt inexplicably drawn to Catholicism for quite a while. At the time I truly thought I was being led by God, but now I think it was simply because of the mysteriousness of it and the beauty of the sense-rich worship–the holy water, the bells, the movement, the chant, rosaries, etc.

The whole, "what if it really is true?" reason. If it really were true, I think it would be good for me to believe it, no?

Wanting to recapture that child-like belief in fairy tales–Santa Claus, magic, all of it. Please don't take this as me insulting Christianity.

In the end, though, for me, there was just too much cognitive dissonance. I knew deep down I didn't believe it, and continuing to try was making me miserable. It had a seriously negative effect on my mental health. I was depressed, I began acting impulsively, writing things on my blogs and then deleting them, asking old friends I hadn't seen in years (as well as blog friends) to pray for me and then later telling them to just forget it. I was full of hope one day, in despair the next. Looking back, I really think I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

Then, in October, my father died. And I looked at my life and thought, What am I doing? Life is too short to be this unhappy. Why am I so unhappy? That's when I realized it was my obsession to find God, my quest to find faith that was making me miserable. And I made the choice to let it go. All of it, Christianity, God, what-is-the-meaning-of-life, all of it. And I began to feel the weight lift from my shoulders. Gradually, I started feeling "normal" again, after three years of feeling (and acting) like a crazy person.

I rarely go to church anymore (sometimes I go with my husband, or to see friends, but those are the only reasons anymore). I'm an observer there, and I no longer feel conflicted.

Now I'm content to do my best to live a life of joy, peace, and happiness.

Thanks for your interest in what I have to say.

Evidence of God. I guess I just mean creation.

I see what you are saying, and I used to look at it that way as well, but that no longer does it for me. To say God is the cause of the universe, but nothing caused God isn't much different (in my mind) than saying the universe created the earth, but nothing created the universe. Or the universe came from something that existed before the universe and has always existed. I don't see why it needs to be a deity that requires worship. Again, not wanting to say I'm right and you're wrong, just wanting to show how I look at it.

You'll never find a perfect Christian, of course. We're human. We have tempers, we're selfish…

… I hope you meet some who are a better example.

I know a great many, very sincere, wonderful examples of Christians (most of my friends are Christians, because most of my friends I met through church). I also know many very sincere, wonderful non-Christians. I know some snarky, unkind Christians. I know some snarky, unkind non-Christians. And of course you're right, everyone is human.

But I think to say "they really aren't Christians" when people behave badly is a cop-out. If that's the case, then hardly anyone who says they are Christian really is one.

My point is that on the whole there is really no obvious difference between Christians and non-Christians, which to me seems odd if this is the one true religion. What a great way for God to communicate this truth in a way that doesn't interfere with anyone's free will–to show that faith in him through Christ actually does something, something people couldn't do through other means.

And I know people who say that it was their faith in Christ that allowed them to kick drugs/save their marriage/whatever. And I believe they believe that wholeheartedly. And I think it's great–really, I do. But I believe, in the end, it was simply a choice they made.

Re: the doorknob analogy. The whole thing disturbs me because God's not some inanimate object or automaton that we manipulate through prayer, bible-reading, ceremony, Christian fellowship, etc.

Again, my apology for the bad analogy. I wasn't comparing God to a doorknob. I was comparing the goal of gaining access to the doorknob via the tool to the goal of a having a relationship with God via Christianity. I wouldn't think of God as an object to be manipulated.

But again, it's the Bible (ie God) that tells us to ask God for stuff.

First, a thought about asking God for things; the verse I was referring to was John 14:14 "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." In this passage Jesus does not qualify his statement with motive, but in light of James 4:3, I understand. What I think is interesting is that these passages mean that anytime God doesn't give us what we desire, its our fault. If we ask for something and don't recieve it, it is because our motives were impure and we need to examine our hearts. This seems reasonable for someone who is asking for a million dollars or for God to smite his enemy (which, by the way, David does in the psalms quite often), but what if someone is only genuinely asking to know God better? By this logic, it is assumed that anytime God does not reveal himself when I ask, its my fault because my heart isn't in the right place.

My whole life, God was the center for me. He was my best friend and my dad who I could count on. As I grew older, and read more and had more experiences, I realized I didn't know God as well as I wanted to , so for years my prayer was "God, please show me who you are so I can know you better." I was asking as a child to a father. This is why I began reading the BIble so intently. I figured it was the best place to start to learn about God's character, but what I found what that God was not as consistant as he claimed to be. He had no problem murdering children (2 Kings 2:23) or wiping out whole civilzations. Surely this couldn't be the way for me to know my creator, not if it was so contradictory. This was why I began asking to know God through experience. I would trust that God was good, even when the Bible didn't make sense and just learn God's character through prayer. But God never showed up, no matter how long I spent crying out for him.

I finally saw no reason for the anguish anymore. If the Bible doesn't hold up to any sort of scrutiny and every event that at one point had been attributed to God can be explained through another, more reasonable explanation, why continue to believe?
* I am currently finishing my PhD in physiology and I am not sure which scientists you are referring to that think creationism is more reasonable than evolution. The amount of evidence for evolution is staggering.

The reason why I don't believe in actively trying to convert someone to Christianity is simple. When I try to do so, I feel like I am imposing "my" will and not "God's" will.

Don't get me wrong. I will speak up on issues using my faith as a barometor for how I respond.

But I prefer to spread God's love through action, which includes compassion, charity, prayer, working on my friend and family relationships etc.

When I became a Catholic in 2009, someone asked me "who converted me". And I realized that it wasn't any conversation. Or someone trying to tell me about God or Jesus. It was watching and observing my Catholic friends in their day to day lives.

That was more convincing than anyone preaching from their pupit. In fact, even now, as I come to terms with issues I don't agree with *yet* the Church, having someone "tell" me what to think doesn't convince me.

I don't feel those comments come from God's will. I feel they come from that persons will that they are trying to impose on me.

My relationship with God is what it is, warts and all. God supposedly has me exactly where *I* need to be on my journey, not where someone else *wants* me to be.

If we preach that we are given free will, then why do we then tell those that exercize free will that they are wrong. It could just be that GOD has them where they need to be.