Comments on Conversion Diary: What makes it so hard

LOL!!! :-DThat is far more intersting/exciting, IM...

2006-05-19T13:21:04.653-05:00

LOL!!! :-D

That is far more intersting/exciting, IMO, than anything we've seen thus far in season 2!! :-D

You should be a writer for that show!

Don't get me wrong, I still like the show, but I d...

2006-05-19T13:17:04.230-05:00

Don't get me wrong, I still like the show, but I do have some misgivings about it. Primarily the predictable and lame "flirting" and setups (helping with golf swing, caught in the net...), the Hurley and Libby thing, Lovely Shannon being defiled by Sayid, etc. That stuff literally pains me.

My understanding was that the show actually has a 5 year plan/outline and that there has been some changes along the way concerning details and stuff, but not that they are totally winging it. However, if your information is correct, the show will be over half way through next season. They'll find the huge electro-magnet and Sayid will try tweaking it. He'll accidently reverse the polarity, and in the next seen we'll see Eko and Charlie kissing in the hatch while the button goes unpushed.

The magnet begin to whirl up just as Locke bends over to pick up a little tiki idol he finds on the beach. The magnet will launch him and the idol into the sea at high velocity. Fortunately, he'll skip over the circling shark, but he'll sink to the ocean floor where the last thing he will see is a basketball and Chuck Cunningham's remains.

wohooo!! 100 comments! Jen, is that a record?The ...

2006-05-19T12:36:05.870-05:00

wohooo!! 100 comments! Jen, is that a record?

The origin of 'Jump the Shark' is pretty hilarious.

For some reason I got the idea from Julie's site that you were still a big fan of 'Lost'. Shows how out of touch I am.

Did you know that initially, the main idea of the island was that they were all in purgatory, and that as each of them found redemption, they died off (i.e. were released). Actually a pretty cool idea if you ask me.

Apparently, when people started figuring that out, the abandoned the idea and no longer really know WHAT the island means or is about. They are just winging it. The writers/producers were recently quoted as basically saying it's just a character driven show at this point and they are hoping to run it for 5 or 6 seasons.

Anybody looking for answers will be sorely dissappointed cause the writers don't even know the answers. I mainly watch it now because it's the one indulgence I have were I actually feel that the anger it stirs up is righteous indeed. ;-)

LOL Steve. My credibility wouldn't be damaged bec...

2006-05-19T12:11:31.283-05:00

LOL Steve. My credibility wouldn't be damaged because I agree, even though I don't think all is lost just yet (no pun intended). I've openly lamented the romantic interests on the show. I find them regrettable and indicative of weak writing.

My credibility is damaged because I was ignorant of the term "jumping the shark". I'm chuckling about the term right now because I appreciate the concept and recall the downfall of many TV series.

Rick,...now I'm going to have to dismiss everythin...

2006-05-19T11:54:44.410-05:00

Rick,

...now I'm going to have to dismiss everything you wrote.

But your own credibility is seriously in question because you haven't yet realized that 'LOST' Jumped the shark like 2 episodes into this season. ;-)

Hamlet ShamletShamlet is not even a real word. I'...

2006-05-19T11:44:33.770-05:00

Hamlet Shamlet

Shamlet is not even a real word. I'm sorry, Elena, but now I'm going to have to dismiss everything you wrote.

:)

Hamlet ShamletFrom the previously mentioned Harris...

2006-05-19T10:28:53.010-05:00

Hamlet Shamlet

From the previously mentioned Harris Guide to commenting etiquet.

NUMBER FIVE: Respond to the argument, not to the spelling.
There is no surer sign of inadequacy on the part of a debater than when they take issue with some small “error” on the part of their opponent, while ignoring the main point/s their adversary is trying to make.

If you are unable to refute your opponent’s position, don’t insult his or her spelling, grammar, or insignificant deviations from fact. Your opponent is most likely correct, and their small errors have nothing to do with the overall truth or falsity of the proposition they defend. Don’t make a fool of yourself by being a sore loser.
DO feel free to point out significant errors that impact the validity of a claim.
DO NOT point out errors solely for the purpose of embarrassing your opponent.

The rest of the article is equally as informative and insightful.

Hi. :) just stumbled upon this post and thought yo...

2006-05-19T09:50:46.436-05:00

Hi. :) just stumbled upon this post and thought you might be interested in a series of posts I've been writing about NFP.

Ooops, I stand corrected it is Hamlet and not MacB...

2006-05-19T09:34:56.283-05:00

Ooops, I stand corrected it is Hamlet and not MacBeth. I mistyped it.

And I didn't need to spend $145 K to check it out either! $1.95 on Amazon. FREE at the public library! ;)

Perhaps if Elena had got a decent education, she'd...

2006-05-19T09:16:12.763-05:00

Perhaps if Elena had got a decent education, she'd know the quotation is from Hamlet.

I think it's just important to remember that not e...

2006-05-19T05:43:51.170-05:00

I think it's just important to remember that not everyone is going to agree with you, and you don't have to attack them or make snide remarks because of that.

Absolutely Rach, I totally agree! Which is why I posted the address for the Harris Twins guidelines on commenting.

http://www.therebelution.com/2005/08/you-read-it-right-complete-blog.html

A good discussion never has to include ad hominem attacks. : )

I vote for a wrestling match between Elena and Nin...

2006-05-18T22:41:09.630-05:00

I vote for a wrestling match between Elena and Nina. Seriously. Are we in 3rd grade, children? No one is going to convince the "other side" of anything. I can see how both felt attacked. Whether I decide to have 2 children or 10 is really between my husband and I, not for anyone else to discuss....

Well, I suppose if they want to discuss it, they could...but it's really not going to change what I'm going to do.

I see Nina and Elena as both very sensitive about defending their parenting choices. Nothing wrong with that, I think it's just important to remember that not everyone is going to agree with you, and you don't have to attack them or make snide remarks because of that.

I:
spank my child
feed her lunch meat filled with sodium
occasionally let her wear a dirty onesie

I love my child to pieces. One of you could say that I don't, but I know that I do, so it really doesn't matter what you speculate, right?

I think the lesson here is that skins may need to be a bit tougher.

This is entertaining, at the very least.

http://www.therebelution.com/2005/08/you-read-it-r...

2006-05-18T14:10:00.403-05:00

http://www.therebelution.com/2005/08/you-read-it-right-complete-blog.html

The Harris twins on making comments. Every blog should have one! : )

Grade A Smart Ass Here ---->

2006-05-18T11:07:52.983-05:00

Grade A Smart Ass Here ---->

Jennifer,In light of that, I reread it and see wha...

2006-05-18T11:04:32.850-05:00

Jennifer,

In light of that, I reread it and see what you mean. Indeed; perhaps I was the one who misinterpreted it. The post wasn't specifically addressed to anyone so I assumed it was a blanket address rather than directed specifically to you and your situation. Again, that's for Nina to clarify if she desires.

Ok, my last comment now. I swear. Truly, I wasn't...

2006-05-18T11:03:31.093-05:00

Ok, my last comment now. I swear. Truly, I wasn't addressing anybody when I talked about college tuition. I was taking a very small piece of the conversation (which really never was one) and put in my thoughts.

Nina, I absolutely agree with what you said in your last comment about our values and who we are. They should not be put aside when we are speaking to others, otherwise we're nothing more than wishy-washy idiots. I respect a person who is passionate and wrong more than a person who is wishy-washy and doesn't have any opinions of their own.

However, I don't ever take it as a personal slam when someone disagrees with me. It can actually be an enjoyable discussion. I rarely see anyone who is mean-spirited about it and I don't believe it was meant to be that way here.

I think it worth reminding that it's hard to "say" things in comment boxes because we don't have the benefit of facial expressions, tones of voices, and we usually don't know the person enough to realize when they are joking or teasing (or just being a smart-ass).

:)

Rick: I think Nina means that I do not have any ch...

2006-05-18T10:48:47.900-05:00

Rick:

I think Nina means that I do not have any children and cannot understand her point of view.

That's how I took it. I'm pretty sure that's what she meant. She's said it several times. Pretty clear she thinks that having no children makes it easier for me to talk about this in theoretical terms. A valid point. Maybe.

It is another example of me being unnecessarily flip. It wasn't useful to the discussion.

Thanks for pointing it out.

I do have to guard against my tendency to be biting and flip.

Lesson learned.

Oh, (I just read some more recent posts) and in fa...

2006-05-18T10:31:55.486-05:00

Oh, (I just read some more recent posts) and in fairness, Nina. I think the misunderstandings have gone the other way too. Recently you wrote: Yours are theoretical. It's easy for you to separate yourself from these things because you don't know what it is to love,... and Jennifer replied with: BTW my dead children are not theoretical.

Jennifer, truly, I don't believe that Nina was referring to micarried children or even families with no children. She was countering what she perceives to be an attitude of other parents (regardless of family size). I don't think it is fair or an accurate characterization, but I'm 98% sure it wasn't meant the way you took it. But Nina will have to clarify, if she wishes.

I had just forgotten to add how there was misunderstandings on both sides and that example presented itself.

...or to Rhonda's continued insistance that I have...

2006-05-18T10:21:19.836-05:00

...or to Rhonda's continued insistance that I have claimed that people should not have children because college tuition is expensive...

Nina, Rhonda didn't even come close to mentioning you or attributing anything to you. She was discussing the college tuition conversation and nothing more.

Jennifer F was the first to introduce that thread when she said, "I was mentally contrasting it to the families I know where the priorities are standardized tests, sports, and what college you get into."

The subject of college had coincidently also entered the conversation when you and Julie were discussing what Rose's teacher had said.

Rhonda and I both know that you didn't claim that someone should limit family size because of the expense of college. We read the thread. We know your initial comments about college were regarding the "difference between 2 or more kids" thing. You have a valid argument in that regard.

The problem is that anybody who expresses their opinion about parenting priorites and college tuition or family size is accused by you of having attacked you. You made it stated very clearly that you don't believe that families should be limited in favor of providing a college education, yet instead of adding to anyone's comments concerning it (or even remaining silent), you jump in and "defend yourself". When you first started doing that, every person who was participating in that aspect told you that they weren't addressing you, just the issue (which this isn't the first time the issue has been debated) By your own defensiveness, you have put yourself at odds with those who agree with you, and have carried it over to the point of putting others on the defensive - to which they react.

So to be clear. I BELIEVE you Nina. You're not a heartless monster. You don't advocate only having one or two children just because college is expensive.

If I dare enter this conversation again, and comment about how I believe that there are more important things to raising a good family than providing a college education (which is a desirable thing), I am not insisting that you are claiming otherwise. Based on what I read, I think everybody else here would agree with that statement.

Peace...

Nina, I'm sincerely glad that you have such passio...

2006-05-18T10:19:01.716-05:00

Nina,

I'm sincerely glad that you have such passion in your heart concerning your children.

I am sincerely sorry you find the tradition of debate so painful and experience having your ideas and values challenged as being sneered at and derided. I'll avoid engaging you in the future.

BTW my dead children are not theoretical.

It would be more correct to say I have no LIVING children.

I have, in fact, five children in heaven.

Peace be with you.

Take the last word, if you must.

It is finished for me.

I also thought I was done here but wanted to jump ...

2006-05-18T09:56:00.806-05:00

I also thought I was done here but wanted to jump back in with one last thing as there is so much ... let's call it "passionate discussion."

As Christians we are all called upon to forgive ... whether we "feel like it" or not. I have gotten a lot of good from this commentary by Mother Angelica so I offer it here:

If someone has wronged you, you are not required to think they're wonderful for doing it. You can despise what they did to you, and tell them so. You can tell them it was lousy and that you feel lousy and that you forgive them in spite of all that. The Lord asked us to forgive, but He never asked us to feel like forgiving. You must decide to forgive, just like you decide to love. None of this has to come naturally, and if you are expecting to develop the natural inclination to forgive, you're going to wait a long time.

As Christians, we don't forgive someone because it makes us feel like a nice person or because its sweet, but because its hard. The very difficulty we have in summoning true forgiveness out of our hearts makes us resemble Jesus.

The values and ideas I have built my life around a...

2006-05-18T09:49:57.686-05:00

The values and ideas I have built my life around and raised my children to respect and live by are very much who I am.

There is no integrity in a value that's merely something we take out and play with for discussion's sake or when it suits our purpose in a debate. Values that aren't lived are meaningless. People who don't live values are shallow.

If we are not our values, beliefs and ideas, what are we other than a walking collection of physical matter? How are we different from a dog or a cat or plant?

My children are real. I can't separate myself from them willy-nilly as suits YOUR purposes for this discussion.

Yours are theoretical. It's easy for you to separate yourself from these things because you don't know what it is to love, nurture and raise a child and then have someone treat the sacrifices and hard work you've put into it as merely some theoretical concept that they're entitled to denigrate and twist and sneer at.

And how empty, shallow and lifeless we would all be if our values, ideas and beliefs dind't come from who we are?

I can't make myself un-human enough and robotic enough to give you what you feel you are entitled to from this discussion.

I'm not really sure, too, why you think you have the right to ask people to alter themselves or turn off their feelings to suit your personal wishes.

I can't imagine anything more horrific going through life without feelings or emotions or real, lived values or ideas that come from knowing who oneself is. You can't harden your heart or go through life blowing with the winds. You have to be somebody, stand for something, and live who you are and what you believe.

At least that's the way I see it. I don't think any other kind of life is really worth living.

God Bless You, Nina. Your values and the ideas yo...

2006-05-18T09:25:12.556-05:00

God Bless You, Nina.

Your values and the ideas your reprsent on a blog comment box are NOT you. How small we would all be if that were true.

You will feel a lot of unnecessary anguish if you remain unable to separate an idea from your self.

At the very least, you should probably avoid comment boxes on blogs.

I'd imagine they are quite painful for you and shudder to think of it.

God bless.

Jennifer F., So I guess this proves that the answe...

2006-05-18T09:14:19.860-05:00

Jennifer F.,

So I guess this proves that the answer to your original question about where Catholics stand on this issue of limiting family size is.......all over the place! :) And this is among traditional Catholics, most of whom are genuinely trying to discern God's Will in their lives.

I think this is where the Church really shows Her wisdom in allowing and encouraging each couple to discern for themselves what is ideal for their family as far as child-spacing/family size goes, as long as it is done using moral methods.

We all come from very different places and experiences, and if we are ever to get anywhere as far as understanding each other goes, then we have to realize that just because we "feel" something strongly or have had a particular kind of experience with parenting or mothering or family size (or any other number of such hot-button issues) doesn't mean the next person has.

I am personally very glad that God has NOT given us each the task of figuring out what everyone else should do (although I must admit it's very tempting and so much more fun to sit around figuring out solutions to everyone ELSE's problems), as I find it is more than enough of a challenge just to get my own act together and figure out what is best for our little (or not so little!) domestic church.

Jennifer, lovely thoughts, but the problem is that...

2006-05-18T08:28:13.106-05:00

Jennifer, lovely thoughts, but the problem is that the idea you're claiming is mine and that you're arguing against is not an idea I promoted at all.

I don't know how many times I have to say this until it finally gets through to you: I NEVER SAID NOT TO HAVE CHILDREN BECAUSE OF FUTURE COSTS!

Really, this is so pointless it's beyond ridiculous. You've all set up a strawman and are insisting that I defend something I never claimed. How this is any kind of intelligent discourse, I don't know, but obviously you think so.

BTW - people with integrity are indeed their values. When you attack my values, you attack me. When those values involve my husband and my children, you attack them. If you were a parent, you might understand this, but you're not, so you can't possibly.