Comments on Conversion Diary: Five Catholic teachings that just kinda made sense...

Purgatory is a big issue for me. It was actually i...

2008-03-27T08:15:28.241-05:00

Purgatory is a big issue for me. It was actually invented in the middle ages so as to extort money from the congregation for indulgences.

I researched that when I was looking to Catholicism, and that's not what I found. Here is a decent summary of the info I found if you're interested.

Thanks for your comment!

This was an interesting post for me. I was raised...

2008-03-25T13:33:00.000-05:00

This was an interesting post for me. I was raised Catholic in Ireland, so very very conservatively. Given this and the horrific recent history of the church in our country I wandered. I have recently realised something is missing in my life and have begun coming back to God. I have researched several religions, but keep coming back to Catholicism. Maybe it is like the mafia! ;-) I agree with all your points except for number two. Purgatory is a big issue for me. It was actually invented in the middle ages so as to extort money from the congregation for indulgences. I discussed this with one of my religious role models, a priest who recently passed away. I told him I had issues with a Dante style hell and purgatory. He told me the only way of looking at it that made sense to him came from an eight year old child. "Hell is where God ain't." So I guess maybe pergatory is where I am right now... where God is "sort-of!" I will continue reading with great interest. Blessings!

Roger,I for so many years of my life shared your v...

2008-03-23T12:27:00.000-05:00

Roger,

I for so many years of my life shared your view that trying to get into some heavenly club was selfish and despicable. It was what took me so long to get here. I think this: There are a lot of hurdles to clear. Heaven is an eternal concept. It is difficult for the earthly mind to grasp. We all struggle, and many write about it. It remains a mystery. Neither did I have any ambition to be good just to 'save my arse'. It seemed like cheating on a test you didn't study for rather than knowing the material. Being faithful and good is more like knowing the material, and loving and choosing it, vs. scrambling as a last ditch effort to pull it out of the bag.
The more I know this Jesus I have come to love, the less I want to spend eternity away from him. That's worth seeking. (And) as for those who aren't more inherently nice, who better for a saviour? Haven't you ever wished to be saved FROM yourself? Have you ever said or done something you wish you could take back? What if believing in a natural order consistent with an intelligent design and ultimately leading to a knowable, loving God, helped you understand what makes you do things you wish you could take back? What if it somehow DOES make us better people?
I was pretty good to begin with. I believe in RIGHT and WRONG. (Black and white. The greys start to pull to one side or the other, eventually....) The kind of absolute thinking I tended toward led me on a very natural path toward a creator. I would never worship anything malicious, creator or not, so the creator had to be benevolent. God is just such a benevolent being. If we try to grasp the scope of Him always being the same, yesterday, today, and tomorrow, before long, you get a sense of an eternity that is too difficult for us to really absorb.
We can just stand in awe, and learn, and hope. I hope you get to know enough Christians of deep faith to see that we're not all 'arse savers'.

God Bless!
He is Risen!

Renee

As for Purgatory, I don't think there is one place...

2008-02-29T02:22:04.116-06:00

As for Purgatory, I don't think there is one place called Purgatory. I do however speculate that there is a different judgement for each person and some might be given a sort of "work camp" or "parole" and some redeemed might "need more training". It is not mentioned in the Bible but I don't have the abhorance some Protestants do for it.
The idea that non-christians can escape hell has one flaw. If they are saved by Christ they are by definition Christians whatever we call them on Earth or they call themselves. The real question is, "does everyone who fails to give intellectual assent while on Earth go to hell". I don't think that true. Or if it is then God would make special interventions when necessary-like appearing in a dream at the last momment of life.
However I think the point about Mary is flawed. There is no reason she need be a particularly special person. One of the main themes of the Bible is that anyone can be chosen for God's tasks, whatever their station. After all have you ever wondered what if Athens had been the Chosen People? "How odd of God to choose the Jews?" is an old anti-semetic taunt, but it comes back to bite when one realizes that it was indeed odd-and that was the whole point. The same way Mary could have been chosen for her task for any reason.
It probably is true though that she prays for us down here-as do all that have gone before.

Jason Taylor

I like your comment on the Communion of Saints,"Th...

2007-11-22T21:40:00.000-06:00

I like your comment on the Communion of Saints,
"The longer I'm a Christian the more I see the need for solid spiritual role models."
I love reading the lives of the saints too, and feeling that I have extra "aunts" and "uncles" watching out for me, and even that people like Chesterton & Father McNabb, uncanonized, are sort of "fair game" to ask for prayers (at least that is the impression I have gotten from better-informed Catholics).

I don't think we need to be embarrassed about doin...

2007-11-20T09:01:00.000-06:00

I don't think we need to be embarrassed about doing good things to get to heaven. All things naturally desire their own perfection. This is what heaven is. Of course, we understand our perfection as rational men to be union with God.

Like C.S. Lewis says, the idea that one should not be happy for doing good comes from Kant, and not from Christianity.

Ok, Roger, I'll say it too - I do live my life doi...

2007-11-19T11:34:00.000-06:00

Ok, Roger, I'll say it too - I do live my life doing good and loving others and God because it is the good and right thing to do.

My reward (not my goal) is heaven.

As for reason - I don't see my Faith as the opposite of reason. Check out Catholicism for yourself and you'll see what I mean.

Finally, as far as heaven being a special club - didn't you see her post on reason #4? It isn't a special club and you could and may and probably will end up there after your life on earth is over.

See you on the other side!

I'm a big fan of all five of those things. I'm so...

2007-11-18T22:12:00.000-06:00

I'm a big fan of all five of those things. I'm sort of a convert/revert ("raised" Catholic, found it for real on my own), and without much in the way of religious ed, those things always made sense to me too.

Roger-Are you saying there is a special heavenly c...

2007-11-16T10:45:00.000-06:00

Roger-
Are you saying there is a special heavenly club? Cuz if there is, I will do anything and everything to get into it. I'll even respond to rude comments charitably! I love you Roger!

Roger-As a Catholic I do not do good things to get...

2007-11-15T21:24:00.000-06:00

Roger-
As a Catholic I do not do good things to get into heaven. I do good things because all good things come from God and I find my purpose in life to be: to love, honor and please God, because I love Him and if that gets me into heaven then cool. If not I know that I have been and done all that I could. I do not think that that is selfish at all.
If you choose to believe that Catholics are selfish so be it.
Pax Christi,
Erika

I love reading your blog and learning about the Ca...

2007-11-15T13:45:00.000-06:00

I love reading your blog and learning about the Catholic faith. I think for me, some of these doctrines would be sticking points especially the concept of purgatory because I've always been taught that when we accept Christ, he cleanses us from all sin, and we are made righteous. Having said that, I do have a few sticking points of my own when it come to my own Protestant beliefs. For example, why pray to ask forgiveness of sin if they are already forgiven? My head knows the answers that I've been taught, yet still I question it.

Roger,You sure seem to have a lot of faith in reas...

2007-11-15T09:21:00.000-06:00

Roger,

You sure seem to have a lot of faith in reason. ;-)

And if there is no God, and we are all only meat robots, then nothing whatsoever "matters in its own right." It is reason itself that demands this conclusion.

This is a great post! A lot of those things are th...

2007-11-14T16:16:00.000-06:00

This is a great post! A lot of those things are the same reasons I believe Catholicism is true, especially purgatory, sacred tradition, and the belief that non-Catholics and non-Christians can go to heaven. Without those three things, I don’t think I could believe in Catholicism, either. Christianity just doesn’t make sense otherwise. I think Catholicism acknowledges the complexities of life better than any other religion.

How sad to see that you abandoned reason for faith...

2007-11-14T14:14:00.000-06:00

How sad to see that you abandoned reason for faith. would it not be even better if you started living your life as if it mattered in it's own right and not just so that you could get into a special heavenly club.

I think doing good for no other reason then such a selfish desire is despicable.

Have a reasonable day.

Roger

Five great points. Your blog is refreshing becaus...

2007-11-14T00:05:00.000-06:00

Five great points. Your blog is refreshing because you don't have a master's in theology.

It reminds me of Barbara Tuchman noting that she was not cursed by a graduate education. She proceeded to write great narrative histories uncluttered with attempts to win over specialists.

I love reading all the aspects of your conversion ...

2007-11-13T22:58:00.000-06:00

I love reading all the aspects of your conversion story. May it reach the hearts of many, many people.

Your readers, myself included, are blessed to have you, Jen.

Veronica - good point. Thank you for mentioning th...

2007-11-13T22:00:01.134-06:00

Veronica - good point. Thank you for mentioning that.

Very nicely put Jennifer! It's odd, that four of y...

2007-11-13T19:36:00.000-06:00

Very nicely put Jennifer! It's odd, that four of your "no brainers" are things that I still struggle to believe as a former Protestant. In some ways, it must be a blessing to enter the faith with a clean slate inside of trying to undo years of non-truths that are still running through your head.

Thanks again for all the clarity and insight you bring to the issue of conversion!

#4 is the kicker for me. If I had to pick a solid ...

2007-11-13T19:16:00.000-06:00

#4 is the kicker for me. If I had to pick a solid concrete reason why I am Catholic and not something else, I'm pretty sure I'd pick #4. It's the thing that made sense to me.

It may be worth pointing out that communion of sai...

2007-11-13T18:52:00.000-06:00

It may be worth pointing out that communion of saints is not a uniquely Roman Catholic idea. Protestants believe in it too, just not in a way that includes venerating saints.

What a wonderful post! I'm glad this has been a g...

2007-11-13T18:44:00.000-06:00

What a wonderful post! I'm glad this has been a good journey for you.

I myself am a cradle Catholic so sometimes I feel myself slipping into the opposite direction but time and time again when I read some of the Saints' insights (regular people like you and me who probably had many of our same skepticisms, questions...failings) encourage me to keep trying, questioning, and understanding.